Feel free to mention any of the
other things abouut the story thaat come to mind The community. Types of people.
The face. The old men? Also make connections to other things we've read or to
other ideas. Now what do you think about the story?
Domingo A.
Rochin:
Joy, do you feel lost like I do
Domingo
Consuelo Richardson:
I
think that this story represents how every youth must leave home at one point,
and their struggle to overcome the lonliness, unfriendliness, and financial
struggle one must go through.
Joy Nichole Goodie:
I think that Davis did an
absolutely wonderful job in her description of the setting and people.
Daniel
Anderson:
The messages will scroll by on the screen What do you thuink about
the story. Connie. Do you think that the youth figure represents anything?
What?
Domingo A. Rochin:
Young people don't have to leave home if they have
parents who understand them
Joy Nichole Goodie:
Please disregard my
comment.
Daniel Anderson:
Joy, no sweat.
Domingo A. Rochin:
who
wants to talk about iron works?
Bert Alan Mikosh:
I do
Consuelo
Richardson:
Maybe he represents the lost souls in us all, I relate to how he
was filling since I was raised in the military and moved alot. Sometimes the
people were nice sometimes not.
Daniel Anderson:
When does the story take
place? What does it have in common with Rip van Winkle?
Joy Nichole
Goodie:
Did anyone happen to pick up my packet on accident last Thursday? I'd
hate to buy a new one.
Domingo A. Rochin:
Why are we doing this
Melinda
Baggett:
This story shows how Robin gave such unworthy praise to the major who
was condemmed by his community, and his youthful blindness to the true
major.
Brandi Mahon:
the story takes place in the early colony
times
Samantha Smith:
Yes, I agree that this is largely about youths having
to leave home at some point, but it was so horrible that the uncle had been
tar-and-feathered on the very day that Robin had come to make a new home with
him. Obviously that is where we may find the meaning of this story--why is this
man discraced in such a way??
Gilnerto Segura:
They both have old guys in
them.
Domingo A. Rochin:
is there a purpose to all of this?
Daniel
Anderson:
Connie: I like your point about being lost etc. It seems as if MM is
a lot about the individual and tha community. Robin is the individual and the
community he comes looking for is no longetr there when he gets there. what does
the new community look like?
Brandi Mahon:
danielll whoa slow down with the
typing!!!
Domingo A. Rochin:
....A method to this madness
Joe
Pedroza:
Joe Pedroza:
Hawthorne exemplifies his technique of messing with
your mind and joining the real and imaginary world together.
Ducky:
Domingo,
I read the story about the iron works. I thought the guy, Kirby, was a real
jerk.
Melinda Baggett:
This man was disgraced because he possibly was a
appointed governor by Great Britain kings?
Domingo A. Rochin:
I have nothing
top say, so next message will be bkank
Gilnerto Segura:
Hawthorne doesn't
mess with your mind it is the concepts in the writing.
Daniel
Anderson:
If enough of you want to talk about Iron works, I've made aa
conference. Just do Interchange Join a conference and choose ironworks.
Domingo
A. Rochin:
blank
Daniel Anderson:
gilberto. what do you mean that
hawthorne doesn't mess with your mind? What kind of concept do you
mean?
Melinda Baggett:
What was the deal with the red and black faced man
that told him Major Molineux was coming?
Joe Pedroza:
Joe Pedroza
He
writes the story in comparison to maybe his life experiences, as mentioned in his
autobiography, how he was isolated in one room for twelve years.
Greg
Hyzak:
Robin seems to be a lost country boy who feels the need to leave home
and travel to the city, but he keeps fanatsizing about the country.
Gilnerto
Segura:
Well if you stay in a room for 12 years you beging to see men with red
and black faces in your witting...the images of madness can be made
creativity.
Daniel Anderson:
melinda good question. What does the red and
black represent. he was one of the mob who were trying to riot against the
colonial govt. what about the mixture in the descriptiuon though. does this
reflect any other ambiguity?
Samantha Smith:
Melinda, I was thinking
something like that--it is probably of historical significance. I got the
feeling that Major Molineaux was a supporter of the crown, just as Rip had
professed when he emerged from his nap to be a subject of the crown. But it is
horrible how people took these things to such extremes!
Greg Hyzak:
I
agree with Joe that the story is a lot like Hawthornes own life.
Melinda
Baggett:
It seems that Robin left home to find a rich hertiage that was
supposedly owed to him by the major.
Tim Decker:
I believe that there are
many references to the devil through the face and activities of the young lady.
This seems to be a very common theme for Hawthorne. Hawthorne presents a young
lad from the country, which implies a certain amount of immaturity to the ways of
the world, that goes to the city and "grows" and is presented with the "evil
ways" of the city. My favorite quote the presents the image of evil is "the
forehead with its double prominence, the broad hooked nose, the shaggy eyebrows,
and fiery eyes".
Joe Pedroza:
It just shows how people have changed in the
New World. the boy was expecting for the New World to bend over for him because
he was a kinsman.
Thats to bad!
Daniel Anderson:
Samantha, good
comparison. both Rip and MM and Robin are representatives of the old world, and
traditon etc. What about the differences. Rip likes to hang out with the new
generation, and Robin seems ready to join the revolutionary mob. Are they both
revolutionaries?
Brandi Mahon:
reference to devil is true to hawthrones
work..... ie scarlet letter with hester prine
Brandi Kim Jones:
Brandi
Jones:
I think that the red and black faced man was some sort of symbol for
the devil or his presence by the connotations I received in reading Hawthorne's
description of the man.
Daniel Anderson:
Joe, Do you think that the boy's
naivete and sense that he will be provided for are not part of the new American
id. The ending would seem to sa so.
Gilnerto Segura:
the new world is a bad
place for those who expect luxury. This devil stuff is the same puritanical stuff
hawthorne loved..iagree too
Samantha Smith:
The red and black were said to
represent warfare and the blood shed as a result. So this must have something to
do with the war. Maybe Major M. was so decorated because he killed the most
people or something--he could have fought for aomething that was in opposition of
everything that his community stood for...
Consuelo Richardson:
The new
community looks big and scary. He has no map to find his way so he needs to
interact with the community: The pretty house keeper, the two toned guy, the
pseudo-kinsman at the end. His expectations of what the Major is to the
community and the reality are very far apart. Robin was looking for a mansion
with a distiguished gentleman not a tarred featherman. The reality was a shock
to him and he almost left. He stayed with the other man who said " if your as
smart as you say then stay and make it with out the major" leaving him a new
beginning.
Daniel Anderson:
Tim. Interesting. The alignment with the devil
is something Ihadn't thought of but it raises interesting possibilities. If the
revolutionaries are sided with the devil. What does this say about aAmerica and
the idea of change VS tradition.
Joe Pedroza:
I think that the New world
would of helped him out and be more hospitable but the way he presented himself
just rubbed the people the wrong way and therefore they gave him a pretty good
lesson.
Brandi Mahon:
he was a country boy..... and the people of the town
were not used to "crude" ways????
Daniel Anderson:
the new community seems
to be much less high-brow, if that's the right word. Shopkeepers, old men,
watchmen, whores. The mob itself. Is this the face of the new America. if so why
is it both red and black.
David A. Barfoot:
Why do you think the gentleman
was seemingly very kind to Robin? What could he represent?
Gilnerto
Segura:
The new world is satanic? perhaps if the old traditions of the old
world are roud and true.
Greg Hyzak:
Robin should have been a little wiser
by taking note of how people reacted whenever he asked for someone to direct him
to the Major's house instead of thinking everyones reactions were in respect to
the Major being so prominent.
Consuelo Richardson:
Joe, I agree but only
because he had not had to behave in a "civilized" manner before on the farm. His
manners would have been wasted on pigs don't ya think. However I bet he was glad
to be a somewhat fast learner.
Daniel Anderson:
samantha. good point about
war. remember that this story, like RVW was written after the war but about an
event that took place after the war. Perhaps it can be used as a way of viewing
the revolution then. The mixed feelings of the face may be saying something about
the narrator's views of the American revolution. Why would a new American, trying
to write a new kind of literature come down against the revolution
though?
Brandi Kim Jones:
I think that the tradition element is there in
that he traveled to unfamilaiar surrounding in order to regain ties with the
Major; however, the boy's laughing at the end and his accompaining actions seems
to be not only change but betrayl.
Gilnerto Segura:
GReg. innocnce and
naivite. the lamb goes to slaughter licking the butcher's face
Melinda
Baggett:
It seems that Robin was blind to the New Wold's feeling about Great
Britain's rule over the colonies. He thought that he would be praised by knowing
MM and that MM was adored by all, when in fact the New World found great distaste
with Great Britain's rule over the colonies. Possibly Robin's nativity represents
The society of Great Britain's view of the New World.
Tim Decker:
In a
supporter of the crown's P.O.V. the struggle for change of inviduality of a new
nation would be considered "evil". Thus, the image of struggle for evil to
overcome good, which is another popular theme in Hawthorne's works. This can
also be looked at from the other side, the American's P.O.V. which could be
considered to be more liberal, in that the crown's dictatorship of the colonies
was evil and the assertion of their new found independence was seen to be good.
This theme of growing from immaturity and to maturity, that of Robin moving from
the Country to the City, could also be seen as the move from one form of
government to another.
Brandi Mahon:
good point tim.....
Daniel
Anderson:
It seems as if a lot of the way that Robin is protrayed is ironic.
The old gentlemen trying to help him and al the others are really just having a
laugh at his expense. They come off as kind of cruel and are not p[ainted that
favorably. What i want to know, then, is after looking for his Kinsman so long
and finally seeing him disgraced so much, why did Robin join in the demonic laugh
at the end?
Morris Pittle:
I think the satanic correlations are just one of
many social commentaries frequently overused by the writers of the time, not only
Hawthorne, but his peers as well. The snobby crew consisting of Hawthorne,
Mellville, Thoreau, and the biggest social snob of them all, Emerson. Had these
men left their retreats for a change, they might have found a different, more
optimistic view of their community.
David A. Barfoot:
I agree, Robin's
repeated suprise at being rejected parallels the crown's suprise towards the
uprising in the colonies.
Samantha Smith:
Myabe the author is not coming
down on the revolution or the new american ideals, but against the representation
of the old society.
Gilnerto Segura:
hey go easy on emmerson
Joe
Pedroza:
It signifies a change in his world. If he did not join the others he
might of died or been isolated in this world. At the end that is why he was asked
not to leave that night but to wait a couple of days and then make his
choice.
Daniel Anderson:
Morris. Intersting point. It does seem as if the
whore figure, etc are concvenient symols of evil. which, ironically the old
world, traditional representative, Robin, is able to fight off. What would have
happened to the story if he went into the building with the scarlett woman? Would
he have bee able to be the representative of traditiona dn potential
change?
Consuelo Richardson:
Maybe Robin's role is psycotic in that he can
be argued from either side of the revolution
Tim Decker:
Question: It seems
as though, the direction of the conversation is strictly towards a government or
political alignment. Reading Hawthorne's Bio., though would make me wonder if he
was interested at all in political alignment, philosophical alignment maybe and
definitely religous alignment due to upbringing. So, why does this have such a
political lean?
Consuelo Richardson:
Tim you made it that way
Brandi
Mahon:
i think because there was not so much of a separation of church and
state at the time
Morris Pittle:
I have no quarrel with the quality of their
work, it's just that they never seemed to take a look at themselves as a part of
society, rather, they were always looking down, never contributing.
Gilnerto
Segura:
tim. because it envolves new political orders commng about.
Melinda
Baggett:
Robin's laughter at the end represents his realization that MM was
not as respected and pleasant as he was depicted as in Robin's home town.
Tim
Decker:
Gilnerto, is that us adding a political twist after the fact or was it
what the author intended?(I guess that should have been my original
question.)
Morris Pittle:
It's well known that many of the writers of this
time were on drugs. How many of these stories were hooka inspired.
Daniel
Anderson:
Tim. good question. One thing we need to be careful of is injecting
too much biography. There is a certain distance between hawthorne and the
narrator that should be kept up. Later, Hawthorne lost his job twice when the
govt changed, so the sense of revolution as dangerous could easily be brought in,
but this story takes place earlier. the symbols themselves within the story set
up certain oppostions. the crown vs the mob. the past vs the future, the country
vs the city, etc.
Samantha Smith:
Sometimes, regardless of how you are
brought up or your point of view, you are compelled to "go with the flow." This
is something I remember happening largely in Junior High School--when I was
young. Robin gave in to the mob, but then tries to assert himself and make his
own decision by saying he will return home. At that point, he can either stay or
leave--it's his first(?) chance to make a "grown-up" decision.
Consuelo
Richardson:
way to go sam
David A. Barfoot:
His laughter seemed directed
at himself after he overcomes the shock of seeing MM for not realizing his
situation much sooner.
Gilnerto Segura:
tim. the twist is both post and
proto-story. the author as has been mentioned had a varied intrest in political
witing. we on the otherhand see this and decide it has enough depth to go
into..or so we hope.
Melinda Baggett:
Could Robin's going with the flow
represent his first strict Puritan ideals of not being tempted as by the young
lady, but then giving into Satan?
Daniel Anderson:
Morris, the figure that
move through the street come as if from some "fevered brain" hawthornes, perhaps.
maybe. the writer even without drugs can sometimes be characterized as woking in
a reverie or euphoric state. Let's suppose a parallel between the mob that pours
through the streets adn the writing process for the author. What other element s
of the story then, say soething about the writer?
Gilnerto Segura:
DANIEl.
Then what does the major represent for hawthorne. the devil?
Daniel
Anderson:
Samantha, what about the fact that the old man won't let him go. or
at least not yet. is going with the flow the only way to go in this instance.
Perhaps this tyoe of resignation accounts for some of the ambiguity in the
story
Brandi Mahon:
what exactly does ambiguity mean ....???
Gilnerto
Segura:
not too precise. i.e. a fog of untenable images
Daniel
Anderson:
melinda. could it be....Satan. I think that's one way of
interpreting the story. Then how does the revolution come off in hawthorne's
book?
Morris Pittle:
On a broader basis, the whole tone of the work can be
related to the way in which Hawthorne lived, separated, yet highly intuitative to
the social situation.
Daniel Anderson:
brandi. ambiguity is the kind of
unresolvable tension that we find in lots of things. where it is hard to decide
between two or more meanings. Lke the sign in PVW it show change, but it also
show how things stay the same.
Consuelo Richardson:
what about his sitting
on the church steps to wait for the mob
Brandi Kim Jones:
Morris, could you
please explain your respose; I don't quite get it.
Brandi Mahon:
thanks
daniel
Tim Decker:
Dear Mr. Pittle:
Exactly how would you say the he had tremendous intuition about his fellow humans, while be somewhat aloof?
Morris
Pittle:
Brandi, when you grow up you'll be able to understand the finer point
of American literature expressend in a logical way.
Joe Pedroza:
I like
Hawthorne's writing in which he messes with you mind and adds a psychological
perspective of the character and then leaves you thinking at last to what he
might have done.
Gilnerto Segura:
TIM. are they exclusive of each
other?
Daniel Anderson:
If Haswthorne as an individual is shadowed in the
figure of Robin, what do you think about Robin joinng the crowd at the end. Does
this excuse him from some of the elitism that Morriss accuses him of? Or is it
just another scam to make himself seem on the side of the mob, in the community,
etc. while really he's locked away in some atic. Does one have to be involved in
everyday life to be part of the community or can n ewrite oneself a part of it
all by onewself
Tim Decker:
I can see the parellels that Daniel is making
between Robin's life and Hawthornes.
Consuelo Richardson:
Maybe it could
support the devil v/s god, or maybe God is his protector hiding "him" in his
portal. (admendent to step thing)
Daniel Anderson:
Morris, of course
concepts like logic and finer points may well be constructions made up by groups
in order to make a claim to some kind of knowledge that is really protean,
floating and determined by each individual ofr by the same communities who would
constrcut the original terminology but lack the self-reflexisiveness to
appreciate opposing positions.
Gilnerto Segura:
Daaniel. what is the last
part of your question with the authr? can hawthorne escape his reputation
(morris's view) by perpetuating his writing?
Melinda Baggett:
The Satan idea
show that the revolution possibly caused people to go against puritan
ideals??
Samantha Smith:
Could it be that this whole traumatic ordeal that
robin experiences is some sort of initiation? Is it not only a rite of passage,
but a test of strenght or loyalty? This "kind" man may seem to be a friend, but
only to see if Robin can take the fact that something near and dear to him